http://www.thefword.org.uk/images/logo2003.gif 2008-08-07T19:31:25Z Latest comments made on The F-Word Blog tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//8 Movable Type Copyright (c) 2008, The F-Word 2008-08-07T20:01:28Z 2008-08-07T20:01:28Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8142 Night vs. Knight 2008-08-07T17:39:38Z 2008-08-07T17:39:38Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8139 Laura Woodhouse 2008-08-07T16:07:04Z 2008-08-07T16:07:04Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8130 SnowdropExplodes said: Polly Styrene: You are confusing "sex" and "gender" with your academic reference. It focuses (as far as I can see) only on the social aspects of gender, and not on one's awareness of one's own body, which is a separate issue. A transsexual person is not talking about hir social role, but rather that something in the brain is expecting to find itself in control of a penis instead of a vagina, or vice versa - like having the wrong software to operate a piece of hardware; but the human brain is such a complex and adaptable system that it can cope, to a point. But that doesn't stop error messages cropping up all the time!]]> SnowdropExplodes 2008-08-07T14:58:51Z 2008-08-07T14:58:51Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8127 Zenobia 2008-08-07T14:02:37Z 2008-08-07T14:02:37Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8126 Steph Jones 2008-08-07T13:07:14Z 2008-08-07T13:07:14Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8125 Flo 2008-08-07T12:50:10Z 2008-08-07T12:50:10Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8123 Joanne Hill 2008-08-07T11:50:49Z 2008-08-07T11:50:49Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8121 Flo 2008-08-07T11:33:32Z 2008-08-07T11:33:32Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8120 Steph Jones 2008-08-07T10:17:45Z 2008-08-07T10:17:45Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8117 Lynsey said: They are just trying to shock aren't they, and it worked. I confess, I do like the artwork (espeically the skulls), it's quite Ryden-eque. ]]> Lynsey 2008-08-07T10:00:34Z 2008-08-07T10:00:34Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8116 Maia 2008-08-07T09:55:16Z 2008-08-07T09:55:16Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8115 Liz 2008-08-07T09:34:37Z 2008-08-07T09:34:37Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8114 Shev 2008-08-07T09:19:45Z 2008-08-07T09:19:45Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8113 Vincenzo 2008-08-07T09:17:20Z 2008-08-07T09:17:20Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8112 Anna 2008-08-07T09:15:12Z 2008-08-07T09:15:12Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8111 Sairah 2008-08-07T08:13:06Z 2008-08-07T08:13:06Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8110 Sam 2008-08-07T08:00:42Z 2008-08-07T08:00:42Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8109 Lisa Harney said: Louise, "The problem here is that the debate so far has been either gender is real/natural or gender is fake/societal. Social constructions are as real as other things but it doesn't mean they are "natural". That's basic gender theory." I've made this point several times in past discussions elsewhere, but it gets elided in favor of insisting that gender is a social construct, therefore it's not real, therefore it's impossible for trans people to be genuinely who they say they are. In other words, a whole raft of rules about gender are imposed on trans people that simply aren't applied to cis people. That's a big part of the problem.]]> Lisa Harney 2008-08-06T23:36:44Z 2008-08-06T23:36:44Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8089 Elly said: Well first, thanks for enabling 'contradictory' comments, particulary since I think it can be a (socially :p) constructive discussion :) Fran: "but I'm still not sure that simply being told that their appearance or behaviour is un-masculine or un-feminine would always be enough to make someone feel they were in the wrong body" Yes, I think that if it was the case, there would be a _lot_ more of transsexuals :) I think the reaction depends on how it is interiorized by the individual (and, probably a wee bit of randomness, too). And of course this can be partly influenced by genetical/biological/natural factors. But I don't think those factors are intrinsically "male", "female", "trans", etc ; maybe in other social contexts, they could have different or opposite effects. As for the two types of genders (social gender and "psychological gender" or gender identity) I think the distinction can indeed be interesting. But I don't see why gender identity needs to be biological: the fact that something is deeply anchored into someone's brain doesn't mean that it was since birth (to take a stupid example, my mother tongue is deeply anchored in my brain and it partly shapes how I am able to think, but it is not innate). Besides, the real problem I have with that explanation (gender identity is "innate") is that, if taken "extremely" (that is, not "partly innate" or "sometimes innate"), it means that you can never change this gender identity; which may help to accept being transsexual (it's not your "fault"), but can also help rejecting some forms of "transness" because they don't fit well in the standard "woman's soul in a man's body" narrative, e.g. explaining that you're not a real trans' because you didn't always 'feel as a woman' (yes, this was my case, which explains why I'm a bit embittered when it comes to this /o\). Now I can understand that some people who have a strong "gender identity" (whether they are trans or not) might not be happy when hearing that such gender identity is "constructed" because it sounds less real, fictional. But it is not the case, a construction has real effects. So I think there is no need to say "I am for social construction, so I am against transgender" or "I am for transgender, so I am against social construction". It doesn't oppose. ]]> Elly 2008-08-06T23:01:06Z 2008-08-06T23:01:06Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8087 Carol 2008-08-06T22:24:14Z 2008-08-06T22:24:14Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8086 Anne Onne 2008-08-06T22:21:40Z 2008-08-06T22:21:40Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8085 Jack Mcgregor 2008-08-06T20:45:04Z 2008-08-06T20:45:04Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8081 Anna 2008-08-06T20:24:01Z 2008-08-06T20:24:01Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8079 Laurel Dearing 2008-08-06T20:20:30Z 2008-08-06T20:20:30Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8078 Fran 2008-08-06T20:20:24Z 2008-08-06T20:20:24Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8077 Anne Onne 2008-08-06T20:05:32Z 2008-08-06T20:05:32Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8076 E-Visible Woman said: Yeah, and it was just crap. I didn't like how the female voices were like a cross between a baby and a hen.]]> E-Visible Woman 2008-08-06T18:49:53Z 2008-08-06T18:49:53Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8075 Jennifer-Ruth 2008-08-06T18:25:33Z 2008-08-06T18:25:33Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8074 Laura Woodhouse 2008-08-06T17:59:26Z 2008-08-06T17:59:26Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8072 chem_fem 2008-08-06T16:46:44Z 2008-08-06T16:46:44Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8069 Zenobia 2008-08-06T16:29:00Z 2008-08-06T16:29:00Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8068 Renee said: This right after the disgusting image of Britain's Top Model...when is enough going to be enough with these terrible tribal images?]]> Renee 2008-08-06T16:23:19Z 2008-08-06T16:23:19Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8067 Laura 2008-08-06T16:15:57Z 2008-08-06T16:15:57Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8066 Chloe 2008-08-06T16:14:58Z 2008-08-06T16:14:58Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8065 Genevieve said: What's annoying is that a lot of people who watch this are probably going to think that all the "silly woman" behaviors are "just the way it is." Rather than, yes, (some of us) pack lots of clothes on trips, and yes, (some of us) take a longer time shopping...but that's because we're encouraged, from a young age, to be conscious of our appearance, far more so than men are. If we didn't have these social pressures? Then things would be a lot different. Same with the 'going out' thing--men might want to look nice for a date but they expect to get by mainly on charm. Women have been taught that they must look perfect, that everything else is secondary. (Which is funny because I believe it took me about two minutes to change from my school clothes into my 'date' clothes the first time my boyfriend and I went out, and while I knew I looked good the best part about that evening was the conversation.) We have all of these products thrown at us to make us pretty, to increase our 'worth.' And why? Because as many gains as feminism has made, we still have a long way to go before mainstream society sees women as autonomous humans and not as decorations or possessions for men. ]]> Genevieve 2008-08-06T15:50:39Z 2008-08-06T15:50:39Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8062 Kath 2008-08-06T15:27:04Z 2008-08-06T15:27:04Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8059 Alicia 2008-08-06T15:27:00Z 2008-08-06T15:27:00Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8058 queen emily said: Thanks for this Laura. You're absolutely right when you say, "as a cis woman (by which I mean non-trans), I have the privilege of being able to write off gender, of deciding that it doesn’t matter to me any more." Because, in my opinion, most cis people all gain more and risk less from their gender presentations. I'm not just talking about the kind of horrific violence we were talking about with Angie Zapata. Which was a hate crime, pure and simple. Or the estimated 50% chance transgendered people have of being the victims of assaults in any given year. What I mean is, the legal, social and economic black hole that being trans puts you in. It's all very well to say "fuck gender," but what do *your* documents say? Do you have to travel looking one way and having your documents say another? Because driver's licenses and passports and 50 other million things have genders on them, and that tiny little M or F makes a massive amount of difference when your documents don't match up. And most governments make it difficult, expensive, and sometimes totally impossible to change that marker. This is all part of the social construction of gender--not just the performative, or the Butlerian "gender all the way down" notion of the sexed body--and cis people benefit from the freedom of not being considered potential criminals, frauds or even terror suspects (US Homeland Security memo about "cross-dressing terrorists") by institutions in countless ways. And then there's Social Security "no-matches" that can out you to employers, and very little anti-discrimination legislation etc etc. Anyway. My point, is saying "fuck gender" is easy. Working out the infinite ways to allow more gender freedoms, to make it less prescriptive is far more difficult. And the more than occasional suggestions by some feminists that trans people--and only trans people--"reify" the social construction of gender just doesn't help imo, frankly. ]]> queen emily 2008-08-06T15:10:05Z 2008-08-06T15:10:05Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8057 Zenobia 2008-08-06T14:29:11Z 2008-08-06T14:29:11Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2008:/blog//2.8056 Leigh