From aimee

Personally, I think it\'s amazing that a ten year old girl can be so intelligent and perceptive despite the damaging influences of magazines like this. Well done!

From Gloria Dawson

Ananya's review of Girl Talk magazine was intelligent ans well written. I felt like I was reading something I thought when I was ten but wouldn't have known how to put in words. I think she should send her comments in to the magazine and the publishing company, spread her views amongst her friends, and keep writing!

From Dr.J.Amalorpavanathan

Ananya ,you write well.Your reasoning is sound , your prose is tight.Continue writing on many more things that you happen to see around you.Let logic and logic alone be the corner stone of all your activities including your writing. Looking forward to read more of your writing.

From Sneha Krishnan

Perfectly true! I'm glad girls like you are actually thinking of these things!

From Sarah Louisa Phythian-Adams

I read your article and couldn't agree more. I felt very much the same from my pre-teens and onwards - that something was distinctly wrong with the world of being a 'girl'. What you're talking about is the 'normalising' of what it is to be female around a small (and frankly stupid) set of ideals (that is making those ideas into what is considered normal and everything else not). Popular media (that is magazines and TV etc) have turned 'girl' into a brand and everything about being a 'girl' has to be pink, cutesy, giggly, looks obsessed, celebrity obsessed and happy to say that everything else is for boys. I'm sad to say that the magazines aimed at 'women' in the adult market pretty much do the same thing - swap cutesy for sexy and there you have it - the recipe for adult media fodder aimed at women.

It's so heartening to hear that not all young women are swallowing this rubbish! I worry about my nieces who are now in their teens. They think I'm just their mad auntie who won't let them in my house wearing their Playboy jewellery(!) Perhaps you can get involved with your school magazine/ paper as well? I would hope that young women might appreciate hearing some feminist ideas from someone they can relate to - even if it is just a break from the expectation of being this kind of 'girl'.

From tom hulley

Thanks Ananya, What a refreshing article. I loved the clarity of your presentation. In fact, I want to show it to my (adult) social science students as an example of using evidence to support an argument (They tend to just offer opinions). Not the first time I see that children are often wiser and more clearly focused than adults. Indeed, I wish people would stop treating children like children but like people! Maybe F-word will invite you to be a regular blogger as you offer a distinctive and very welcome voice. Also it is heartening to find a young person saying 'no' to gender stereotyping and peer pressure while asserting her own identity.

From Sally

Keep up the great work, Ananya! It's obvious that you study hard and enjoy it. You have combined insights about press-driven sexism, classism and materialism into a single compelling essay. Policy makers who don't believe the media's portrayal of girls is harmful and demeaning need to read this article.

From lisa

There are some magazines aimed at girls which cover particular topics eg horse riding, gymnastics. Otherwise try magazines which cover the particular topic you're interested in eg fishing, computing, martial arts. These unfortunately are often aimed at males but at least they have real articles and information. If you can read French or German they have children's (yes non-gendered !) magazines on a range of topics and even children's newspapers. This International Herald Tribune Article although dated explains the general idea. http://www.iht.com/articles/1999/01/27/kid.t.php

From Aideen

Re: So, you really think we're stupid, do you? I'm so pleased to see that young girls are carrying on the feminist torch and critically examining the media - and from such a young girl too! The article was very well written and she touched upon ideas which wouldn't have occured to many adults!

From Louise

I just want to congratulation Ananya on an incisive and interesting article. Well done!

From Saranga

Too right! Sadly, the magazines (for heterosexual women) don't get much better as you get older. Company is alright, but is definitely geared towards women who like clothes and makeup.

From Yasmin Keyani

Thank you Ananya for your article on magazines aimed at girls. As someone a fair bit older than you, I only ever see these products on supermarket magazine racks and even then I find them quite troubling. They are so clearly just shallow, patronising, product placement vehicles. As such, it is very heartening to know that at least one of their intended readership is not taken in.

From Debi

Ananya, you rock! I really hope other young girls are inspired by you to get interested in feminism - I think they will be.

From Karen Vaughan

The young lady that wrote about the inane magazines aimed at young girls has just re-affirmed some of my faith in human nature. She appears to be wise, balanced, aware of many social issues such as the points going to the girl with the shortest skirt - sad but true! I am very impressed by her article and wish her well for the future - stick to your principles and respect yourself for doing so!

From Jennifer-Ruth

Ananya - you sound like a bright and intelligent person. I think that you should send this article to the editors of those magazines and let them know what you think!

From JENNIFER DREW

Thanks for such an enlightening article. The writer of this article really knows and understands how the editors of these magazines are deliberately attempting to undermine young girls' ambitions, differences and interests.

The writer of this article most certainly sees through the lies these magazines are claiming.

By the way, you are so right, girls are not all the same and there is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to study. You do see how the quizzes are designed to make girls think being intelligent and wanting to learn is not something good but instead tries to make girls think such interests are wrong.

There are a few magazines in the US which do not have this approach one is Teen Voices. Like you I wish there was more variety of magazines for girls because girls are not all identical.

Lastly I think your article was very well written and I'm so glad you have spoken out. We need more voices like yours.

From Louise

Ananya, your article was very well written. I teach year 7 students in one of the best grammar schools in England and honestly, I wonder how many of my students would be able to write such a great piece of writing. You've made my day ! I wish more girls like you would come forth and demand better magazines_ I think lots of girls out there need to be encouraged to speak out and voice their needs or concerns. So well done, and keep on writing, you've got a real talent. Have you thought of having this article published on other websites or in the newspapers ?

From Michelle

Nice one Ananya! Thanks for this really interesting insight into the some of the content of these magazines, I agree they do seem to expect young girls be one kind of person (pretty and giggly) instead of another (someone who enjoys reading and learning).

When I was your age I also found these magazines to not represent girls like me, who did enjoy learning and didn't like dressing up, which I found alienating and does make you feel like you aren't good enough. As you say, there shouldn't be that message that says you should only be one way, and of course you can be the sort of person who wants to do well in school AND have fun!

I also agree that there should be some alternative magazines on offer for young girls.

Keep on doing your thing, Ananya!

From Jennifer-Ruth

Ananya - you sound like a bright and intelligent person. I think that you should send this article to the editors of those magazines and let them know what you think!

From Fran

Thank you for sharing, Ananya! Your article was eye-opening for me. I haven't read girls' magazines for years, and I didn't realise just what a bad message they were sending to their readers.

From hannah whittaker

In response to Anayas article I am extrememly impressed with the level of intelligence she has displayed in this article at such a young age. She will grow to be a fine politician and feminist. Well done Anaya

From Em

Everything you've pointed out is something thats troubled me a lot. I have two 6 year old daughters and we struggle to find suitable magazine material for them to read. Magazines aimed at young children are now too boring for them, and magazines aimed at slightly older children are sickly, and full of references to beauty, pop stars and dumbing down language. One publication we subscribe to and love though is First News. I can highly recommend it, my girls love it!

From Sophie Platt

You poor woman! So unprofessional and indescreet. I'm just glad you actually did something about it. So many others would either ignore it or not bother to persue a complaint. Good on you!

From Mrs C

I feel for you as I had a similar experience with bad staff at a family planning clinic.

I had to have a coil put as I was unable to get a morning after pill, over a bank holiday weekend (this was a good 8 years ago now!). By the time Tuesday came around it was over the morning after pill limit, so an IUD it was instead! Needless to say it was a horrid, painful experience, but I continued to bleed for weeks after, which shouldn't have happened. When I went back to the clinic to tell them I was still bleeding, the Dr. examined me and silently went back to her desk. She wrote some things on my notes then said very flatly -'it seems you have had a miscarriage'. As it turned out I was about 2 months pregnant which I was unaware of at the time. Her response was emotionless and she treated me as if I had done it on purpose. I was 19, had never been to a clinic in my life and i was surrounded by girls younger than me that seemed at home there. I am still disgusted by the way the Dr. talked to me and will never forget her words. Obviously I was relieved at the time (which 19 year old wouldn't be relieved - my mother would have killed me!) I was too young to have a child but who wants to be told in that manner. I never regretted having a coil put in but her response to me made me feel dirty and immoral. If she disagreed with it so much why was she working there? For me this was a long time ago but it makes me sad to hear other women are still being treated in the same way.

From Angela Erdal

Unfortunately I do not think this is a rare experience. When visiting the local chemist earlier this year for the morning after pill, I was taken into the cleaning cupboard (seriously! there where buckets and mops there) and grilled about how I was going to make sure this did not happen again. It was totally humiliating, especially when I can out into the crowded shop and everyone stared as they knew why I was taken in there. I felt like a naughty child not a 38 year old adult.

From Lorrie

I made an appointment at the local surgery a little while ago for a contraceptive injection. Over the phone I was asked what the appointment was for and I replied that it was for an injection. Immediately, without even the tiniest breath, the receptionist blurted "What *kind* of injection?". I told her that I'd rather discuss that with the nurse, thank you very much. This isn't because I'm ashamed of using the injection (preventing unwanted pregnancies? How very dare I!) but because it had nothing to do with the receptionist. Coming from a medical family, I've had plenty of opportunity to ask, and receptionists have absolutely no right to know why you want to see the doctor or nurse.

In any case, I paid for my cheek. When I arrived at the surgery a couple of days later, I gave my name and told the receptionist I was there to see the nurse. With a total lack of regard for the gigantic queue of busybodies behind me, she leant up and crowed over the perspex, "Contraceptive injection, is it?"

Sometimes I just want to give up.

From Shea

I've just read Rachael's piece "Confidential?" and I have to say I'm equally shocked. This was a totally unacceptable violation of the nurses duty of confidentiality. What if Rachael had been there with her partner, who on hearing what she was in there for started to get aggressive? That is completely unacceptable. I think Rachael you should have said something at the time (difficult I know) and definitely write to the health centre. There is simply no excuse for behaviour like that, and as you said, if they see a problem, why haven't they remedied it?

From Anon

I had a surgical termination in a south London hospital earlier this year. I would say my privacy was compromised throughout the entire procedure, from being left to wake up on an un-curtained bed with a backless gown (promptly rolling over and showing the ward my bare arse complete with bloodied sanitary towel) to being debriefed very publicly so the entire discharge room knew what sort of abnormal bleeding I should look out for. Pretty much the only person not reguarly updated on my progress was my boyfriend, who was charged with picking me up afterwards and was treated pretty shoddily by the hospital admin throughout.

From Jennifer Drew

I am horrified this medical practice is operating a 'moral sexual double standard in respect of women's sexualities. Would this practice operate the same principle if say, Mr. Jones called in to see his GP and was told 'take a seat Mr. Jones the doctor will see you shortly about prescribing the little pink pill in order to rectify your sexual dysfunction'. (I am not able to use the medical term because it is viewed as spam). Or would Mr. Jones be told 'take a seat Mr. Jones the dr. will see you shortly in order to discuss STI's'. Same thing only difference is the biological sex of patient. Medical practitioners are there to provide medical expertise to patients NOT to judge patients' sexual activities.

But why is the onus once again on patients complaining? This is clearly blatant abuse of medical practitioners power over patients. I am very angry at this appalling situation. But of course men's sexual behaviours are seen as a right and autonomous unlike women's sexualities which are still being policed and controlled by those who sit in judgement on women.

From Liz

Well done for complaining. You can also raise this with Patient Opinion (www.patientopinion.org) - an independent group that aims to improve NHS services by making sure patients' views and complaints are passed on to the right people.

From Jenny

While this was rather inappropriate, I doubt that many people in the waiting room put two and two together and came up with 'emergency contraception' - they're at the doctor's for their own reasons and probably have plenty of other things on their minds.

From Sian

The history of abortion in Ireland and the UK was the best article I have read for a long time. I'd previously any real knowledge of the history of Irish women's rights, this explained it informatively and concisely.

From Anonymous

Thank you so much for putting into words what I have been feeling for the last twenty years. I shall refer to your article when the topic of "suitable dress" comes up, as it is bound to do in the near future, with my 12 year old daughter. I will use your article in "defence" against potential objections from my husband, who would have me dress to deny that part of me that would celebrate my sexuality. He thinks it's inappropriate for me because I am married - I have been struggling but failing to counter this attitude since I was a feminist student who delighted in wearing mini-skirts, but then slowly lost my self-respect as I became a down-trodden wife and mother...... Hallelujah for this website, which I have just discovered!

From ClaireM

In response to "Incitement to Rape". I think these issues are well teased out. As someone who experienced sexual abuse in childhood can I offer the perspective that also the false perception of female sexuality, the social premium put on good (or 'slutty') behaviour compounds the damage that an abuser or rapist does. Something my mother said once afterwards was to remember I was a normal healthy girl who would recover, not a china doll with a scratch on it. Harsh but helpful message to hear.

From SarahLou42

I really enjoyed reading this piece, it articulated so well what I've been trying to argue for what seems like ages with friends and others about the need for a revolution in sexual attitudes. I particularly liked the redefining of women from sexual objects to sexual subjects, I don't think I'd ever thought of it that neatly or succinctly before, though I'm aware that many others must have. Thanks for a great article, and keep up the good work.

From sophie platt

Brilliant! I used to work with a guy, a self confessed mysoginist, who always seemed to be moaning about 'who do women get all dressed up to go out, and then when you approach them, they just ignore you.' Err..yeah, ever considered the fact that they just don't find you attractive?! No, of course, the problem isn't you, it's them..you ARE

From tom hulley

No and No! Not incitement to rape and not really a 'tricky one'. Rape is a wholly unacceptable act of violence. It is never the victim's fault and it is never excusable.

One of the myths that men use is that they have 'urges' that cannot be controlled. If this were true then all men would need to be caged. What many women may not realise is that men can stop at any point if they wish. Believe me, if a man realises the footie has started, he can withdraw and be downstairs in ten seconds. That's love for you!

In a different context of violence, I take risks. When I walk under the underpass where dangerous hoodies lurk (!) I might get mugged. Such violence would not be my fault and I would not be accused of incitement or contributory negligence or anything else. Unfortunately, we live in a society that tolerates rape or, at best, excuses it. Women may be at risk every time they go out. Indeed, they may be at risk if they stay in. They do not create these risks.

Sexual activity, provocative behaviour etc never merit violence as a response. Rapists are always wholly responsible for acts of violence and these acts actually have no connection at all with sexual activity.

Appallingly low conviction rates are based on misunderstanding this. There is much more to sex than penetration but even if a woman has 'let a man in' it would be quite reasonable for her to tell him to stop as she has changed her mind or feels uncomfortable or whatever.

A man who cannot accept 'no' is not only worthless but not safe to be let out. Yes, there are tricky aspects. Persuasion, lying and trickery are all part of the complexity of relationships but violence has no place.I am pretty sure men know this and choose to ignore it.

Yes, Victoria, the 'grey area' is a figment of the imagination -a made-up convenience for people who not only should but actually do know better. I appreciate that your piece is more considered and better reasoned than my rant but I thought it useful for a man to say that there are no excuses for a change.

From Virginia

Great article :) makes me wonder if I should restrict my language as using phrases like "bugger me it's cold this morning" could then be used against me if I was assaulted. No free speech for teh womenz: too dangerous.

From S

This is a really interesting article and I can see where you're coming from.

However, I have to point out that I'm 15 and my feminist mother doesn't want me to have the jab.

We don't yet know whether the jab will have any side affects later in life. I definitely agree with most of what you are saying but please bear the fact that this will factor in some people's decisions.

From Celia wangler

It is itnerestging to note that this seems to be a turnaround in policy. Until recently women who had "positive" smear test results were treated, including having surgery, with no mention being made that this could have been caused by a sexually transmitted virus or that simple actions such as using a condom could help protect them.

From Chloe

In response to Kit Roskelly's article on the HPV vaccination in schools, I agree that schools have "a responsibility to protect their pupils' health" - which is why I'm glad that St. Monica's School in Greater Manchester has decided against distribution of the vaccine on school grounds.

While I agree that it should be up to young women to decide whether or not they are vaccinated, personally I don't see any point in the vaccine (young men aren't being vaccinated even though it could potentially help them too, and you still need to get regular smear tests - which a lot of women don't realise). Many of my friends think that the vaccine is some kind of miracle protection against STIs, and don't know what a smear test is. Surely we should be informing young women (and men) about proper STI testing instead of parading some miracle cure that is really rather pointless.

From Jennifer Drew

Missing from the debate is the fact the HPV vaccine does NOT PREVENT CERVICAL CANCER neither does it protect girls from HPV viruses. HPV viruses are numerous but the pharmaceutical company promoting this pseudo vaccine is claiming it will protect heterosexually active young women.

If that is the case why then are not young boys also being targetted since research has consistently shown HPV viruses are predominantly passed from male to female via heterosexual penetrative sexual activity. Why are girls only being targetted? Is it because females are once again being treated as guinea pigs? Why aren't boys being offered this vaccine? Is it because STI's and HPV are still presumed to be predominantly passed on from female to male?

This HPV vaccine does not work and there is clear evidence the pharmaceutical companies have not undertaken sufficient research or testing before 'claiming this wonder cure.' HPV has been around for centuries and not until HPV is claimed to cause cancer do we suddenly hear pharmaceutical companies suddenly creating a miracle drug. Remember pharmaceutical companies are only concerned with profit not women's health or lives.

Gardasil has invested a very large sum of money in heavily promoting this pseudo vaccine and the reason as I stated above is profit. Australia, the US and Europe have been heavily targetted and Governments too have fallen for the pseudo claims pharmaceutical companies have made

Evidence is there but the media, governments and sadly some feminists are refusing to listen. Opposition to the HPV vaccine should not be framed around whether or not young women will supposedly become more 'promiscuous' rather it is about women's and girls' lives. Of course boys are supposed to 'naturally' become sexually promiscuous because male sexuality is still widely perceived as being autonomous whereas female sexuality has to be controlled and policed. Hence the reason for promoting this pseudo vaccine. If the vaccine were to 'work' then it would supposedly save Governments' large sums of money in having to contribute and finance women's health.

I suggest we need to learn more about the facts and increasing evidence that HVP vaccine has and does cause very serious and long-term side effects. The issue is not about 'female sexual promiscuity' but about refusing to accept pharmaceutical companies' claims and dicing with real women's and girls' lives.

There is evidence being complied via this website and it is a multi-international one. Feminist scientists have publicly stated their opposition to pharmaceutical companies claims but of course feminist scientists are once again being ignored.

Here is the link to website: http://womenhurtbymedicine.wordpress.com/

From Cara

All you need to know is: the vaccination has to be given at this age to be effective *when they are old enough to legally have sex*.

I don't get it. It's not like the school is telling girls to go out and sleep with every man in sight when underage, which *would* be irresponsible! All they have to say is, this vaccine will take a few years to be effective.

There is a happy medium in sex education. It should be neither "just say no!" or "yeah, go have sex now!" but IF you choose to have sex, wait until you are at least 16, and be responsible.

But then the right wing religious nutters have never been about women's health...no, just controlling their sexuality.

From Shea

I just want to say how brilliant Kit Roskelly's article on the HPV vaccine is. I agree with every word and further I really think this should be in The Guardian, or the Independent and if Kit isn't a journalist she really should think seriously about a career in that profession, because her writing is excellent.

I just want to add to the paragraph on young people that these outmoded attitudes adults have to young people and this vicious victorian morality our society tries to impose is probably part of the reason our young people are the unhappiest in Europe.

From Prossy Kakooza

Could you please extend my thanks to all your readers for all their support during my campaign to stay in the UK. They have helped change my life and i will forever be grateful for that. All my love, Prossy.

From Balbinder Kaur

having just read Annika Spalding's article " is feminism reaching women of of colour?" i have to say the answer is no, as a woman of colour and having worked in the community for the lasd 8 years i have found that women of colour do not see themselves as feminist and part of that is due to the cultural barriers that they face on a daily basis, it is ingrained into them from an early age that they are the weaker sex, and that the mans wishes are paramount.

having said that i have found that the younger generation of black, asian or mixed race women who have been born here and schooled here are getting the message that their views and opinions do count. They have the right to voice objections without the fear of abuse or vitriol. having two neices in their 30's it amazes me how different their upbringing was to mine even though i'm only 7 years older than my oldest neice. So maybe we are getting there but it's going to be a long uphill battle to get the message across.

From Cara

While I completely agree that feminism should be made more accessible, there is a difference between that and dumbing down/ diluting feminism to people who are never going to be receptive.

I am not being classist. I work with, and consider a friend, a black single mother from Brixton who dropped out of school with no qualifications, had 2 kids by the age of 19 and worked 3 crappy part-time jobs to support them. She got sick of this and started doing evening classes; she now has an OU degree and a good job (well, of course :-)).

But movements have always been driven by people who are educated and articulate, and that's not really a bad thing, is it? I'm not saying feminism should be some exclusive club with its "in" language but, well, isn't campaigning for equal pay, choice, etc. and against objectification of women in the media - things that will actually benefit lower socioeconomic group women - better than trying to persuade them not to buy Heat?

I'm not saying that "we" know better - I'm saying, these women probably aren't interested in feminism because they don't have the time or income - it's more important that the *results* of feminism benefit them.

Also, I'm not sure being a stay-at-home wifey is ever a feminist choice, or that such women will be interested in feminism.

Jess McCabe, editor of The F-Word, replies

I couldn't disagree more. If movements put off and alienate the people they're meant to be represent and advocate for, there's a serious problem. That doesn't mean every woman has to be an activist, but if you turn up to a feminist meeting and feel excluded and shut out because you haven't got a women's studies degree or whatever, there's something very wrong.

From jd

Maybe the old man was shocked to discover that menstrual blood is red and not bright blue as depicted on T.V. ads.

But to be serious, even though sanitary products are actually advertised nowadays, menstruation is obviously still a massive taboo. I thought things had moved on from when I was a girl, before the T.V. ads, when you wanted to buy "things" you had to whisper and point at the offending items on the top shelf of the corner shop and the mortified man behind the counter would grab them and shove them into a massive brown paper bag to save everyone's blushes (the bag had to be massive back in the 70s. Do you remember how big the pads were back then?)

I just remember the shame and secrecy surrounding the first few years of my periods. I am 45 years old and I was talking to a friend aged 54 and she told me that her mother used to make her write down the name of the protection that she wanted and pass the note as discreetly as possible to the shopkeeper.

I would genuinely hate for this to continue to cause shame and embarassment for young women today. It is something completely natural and should be celebrated and not hidden away.

With regards to the play I feel that if only one person left the theatre because of the tampon's inclusion then the play should continue in its entirety for the full run. I bet the same old man would not be in the least offended by the use of stage blood to depict wounds in a war scene. It's a cowardly decision to take the item out and simply colludes with the view that periods are shameful.

From Anita

Hi, I've read this article and I'm relieved that someone at las has written something about it. I remember watching some tampon advert on YouTube and when I read the comments I was shocked. All I saw is ''filth, disgusting and shameful''. I asked myself why would the people feel disgusted about seeing a bloody tampon, but laugh at someone throwing paper rolls on the trees? I mean if there was a comedy with a scene with throwing TAMPONS it would be disgusting, just because it's a normal, ordinary thing all women use just like a tissue, a toilet paper or a plaster.

Your article remainded me when I was in Poland and it was around some time when the pope was supposed to visit the cuntry. During the time he was in Poland, all the tampon and pads adverts were BANNED from TV. Reason? They didn't want to 'upset' the pope. Now this shows that there are also religious issues with somethig so normal and natural... I mean, if for the pope, a menstruation is filthy and gross, why don't he complain to God to make the women different?

From rogelio meza

OMG! i really loved your article especially your quotes. That was excatly what I was looking for. Thanks for having this article available for persons who are willing to know about the "role of genders". Our teacher assigned us to research about this interesting topic. I hope you keep writing about this and again THANKS! Sorry about any grammatical errors and spelling.

From Chet

In point of fact, men do have an equivalent of feminism - it's called "feminism." Feminism isn't about special rights for women, it's about equal rights for people without regard to gender.

From Gwen Randall

Thank you so much for your article. I live in the US where abortion rights are very much in jeopardy.

I was just thinking that we need to start talking in plain terms about abortion, miscarriages, fertility, fetal development and the environment of the womb.

If abortion is murder, then are repeated attempts to conceive when you know you are prone to miscarriages also murder, or at the very least reckless endangerment resulting in the death of a child? In cases of miscarriages, there's not always something wrong with the fetus. The chronic fertility issue could be a tipped uterus, large fibroids, blood type issues, hormonal issues, diabetes, and etc. So, if abortions are banned should women who qualify for high-risk pregnancies be forcibly sterilized because their bodies murder healthy unborn children?

It's really amazingly easy to fertilize an egg considering the profound consequences. As a society, we need to understand that there is some moral gray area here. As women, and as families, we need to be able to make the choices ourselves, privately, about whether the fetus is a fully formed life or only a potential life.

Abortions are certainly not new, you can even find references in the Old Testament referring to whether you need to compensate for a fetus the same as a person (you didn't have to) and referring to the legal practice where men could bring unfaithful women to the Temple for a drink of magic "bitter water" to terminate the pregnancy.

So, yes, they aren't new but they are much safer (as is all medical care). We don't have to agree with each other, but we do need to support the overall health of women and their current and future families. And since women will continue to have abortions as they have since time immemorial, then abortions need to be legal.

From Anita

When I asked my mum why couldn't I have her second name but my fathers, she said that she wanted me to have her name but when she went to some registration office or whatever it is (that was just after I was born) the woman behind the desk said it HAS TO BE the father's name/my mum's partner's name. But my parents were never even married!!! It can't be the law, it's just this woman's opinion and because of her I have to live eith my fathers name even when I don't know him very well and we're not close at all. Does it mean that if I get accidentally pregenant at some party where I don't know who's who, and I'll decide to keep the baby but don't know the father, should I travel across the country to find this guy to ask for his last name because otherwise my child won't be 'called like it should be'?!

From Sue Mayer

This article is an attempt to calm passions, but it is I think confused by some contradictions and a lack of focus that is inevitable from a well intentioned perch on the top of a fence. We should not be afraid of robust discussion, but welcome it. To denigrate the necessity of rational argument as merely "playing tit-for-tat" is not really helpful in advancing the process of understanding the origins of basic attitudes and the history of our culture. The issues we find hardest to talk about and agree on are not necessarily the most important ones just because people feel most strongly about them and perhaps encouraging that idea is not what we need to do, and on porn at least - laugh at its absurdities.

Part of this process should be to encourage the separation of personal attitudes to porn or prostitution from rational arguments on public policy, and recognise that for some people departing from deeply ingrained religious attitudes will be very difficult and give them time.

Any "battle of words" will only end when it ends! And it is obviously not yet finished and for some people, prostitution and pornography, like the wider battle over abortion never will be over. How it is conducted is a different matter.

Arguments are fought, and won or lost, anything in between is merely a truce - a waiting time. Those who support a WRTC have to be constantly on guard from those who would take us back to the backstreets. But this is not a game or a competition, it is a constant struggle to keep up and when possible advance. (To continue the macho war-like rhetoric that is so much part of our culture.) And to discuss it in terms of whether or not the discussion should be had, can itself be diversion from necessary argument.

To say that there is a "stand-off" is to assume that there are two equal sides to a conflict and that is not always, or even usually the case, certainly not on 'prostitution'. The realistic argument is not between prostitution and no prostitution, but between illegality and legality, voluntary or coercive and exploitative sex (inside or outside of marriage) And underlying these arguments are centuries of punitive attitudes and a refusal to recognise the basis of these attitudes that are also clearly to be seen in the current attitude of many people to sex education, sinful' sex, family and child support that is 'based on the ownership of women. Objective, rational discussion has to be the basis of all public policy on matters of sexuality and reproductive autonomy. And in the interim we have to prevent action that will further damage the people involved and play to the populist anti-prostitute gallery. And as a feminist I see no reason why I should want to, or have to avoid, rational, evidence-based argument on this issue.

An important part of the discussion that often gets lost, is the difference between permissive attitudes and legislation and restrictive, mandatory legislation that does not allow room for individual autonomy for women on issues such as consensual sex.

Where there is disagreement we must engage with it and not try to suppress it. We are adults and should be able to cope with disagreement. We must reject the idea that women are like children, unable to fully grasp what is good for them. I agree with the dictum, 'Progress comes through conflict' and whether it is prostitution or pornography we should respect the right of women to agree or not. But progressive social policy has to be fought for, as every other progressive step has had to be fought for. I think it is patronising for anyone, including feminists to think that they could or should assert their views over those directly concerned and who know most about it.

And why should we content ourselves with only talking about things on which we agree? We want support and bonding, but not just a comfort zone to avoid the difficult issues? And it tempts me to cry "Come on women - shape up."

Personally I feel that the obsessive concentration by some feminists on these issues, plays to the media tune that 'sex and the penis' is the most important, or only subject worth talking about! In the same way that some men think that being opposed to the extremes of abusive treatment of women makes them feminists, opposition to prostitution is taken by some as conditional for feminism. I believe that this perhaps it hides confusion and a lack of perspective on traditional attitudes that we should be aware of. For some people, any sex outside the traditional teaching of the patriarchal religious model, whether it is homosexuality, 'fornication', prostitution, sex for pleasure or even solo sex, is sinful and must, one way or another, be punished, and for some no amount of evidence or rational argument will change their views, for many others is it just a matter of time.

I am no part of any "stand-off" and do not seek to impose my views on those who disagree with me. I am not a blogger, and do not intend to become one, but I have for many years outlined my views on the Internet; on websites and our group files section*on prostitution - as a concept that in other forms is widespread in our society, yet gets little or no criticism - on paternalism and patriarchy and my view on attitudes to prostitution. I publish my views, to save repeating them over and over again every time the subject comes up - for anyone to respond to if they wish; and in turn I respond to any publicly expressed views on the subject that I think are harmful to women. It is up to people to justify their own position but not impose or attempt to exclude other opinions as was done recently at an event called 'Feminism in London' that specifically excluded members of our group for views on prostitution that did not accord with the organisers.

I facilitate a feminist meetup group in London. It is a secular group open to all feminists to discuss any issues. I support the views of International Collective and the Safety First Coalition and others against criminalisation, but we do not have a 'party-line' and our discussions encompass a wide range of issues, many of which are never touched by other feminist groups.

There are already many existing groups that "work together in a concrete way in the real world to actually achieve something" such as the Fawcett Society and the Pro-Choice organisations, or are specifically set up to address the abuse of women e.g. 'dis-honour' killing, to aid asylum seekers, women in prison or trafficking of women, and they are a very necessary and effective part of feminist action and I would hope to help to feed in new feminists who are looking for such activism towards those groups and provide an additional platform for them if they want to use it. But IMO it is important to recognise the pernicious but largely ignored underlying traditional attitudes that cause abuse, and stifle ALL the campaigns, and progressive campaigns in general.

Trying to prevent discussion of difficult issues is neither necessary nor desirable, if we are to avoid well-meaning but misguided activism that fuels campaigns that are not in the best interest of women.

The only possible solution for disagreement is to respect our right to keep talking towards either a consensus or success for the best option. I agree that language and terminology is important 'anti-criminalisation' is not the same as 'pro-prostitution' - just as anti-abortion is no more pro-life than pro-choice is pro-life. And I certainly agree that feminists need to hear opinions that may be alien to them because they challenge deeply entrenched cultural attitudes.

From Mr Man

Feminists are sexist, its a simple fact whether they know it or not. There is nothing complex about it as feminism aims to improve everything from womens place in the home to womens place in the work and womens health. Feminists at the same time as doing this do not make sure mens rights are not threatened. Indeed feminists tend to be aggressive and reject all criticism of women by men.

Over all, feminism is the scum of our society and must be stamped out. It wasnt always this way, but is now. No feminist or woman in support of feminism deserves respect from men, and those men who do are foolish. Women are given priority in all aspects of society and more money is spent on them than men by the government. Its just pure selfishness, a disgusting behaviour that is repugnent to most men. Most men are not even aware they have lose human rights and are treated as second class citizens and that is why it is so easy for women to continue taking all they want from society without concern to anyone else or the human cost.

From Irina

"Sisters! Some of us are mothers too" is a good article and Ruth makes a valid important point.

I see feminism as neither a propaganda of child-free lifestyle nor propaganda of motherhood. It is about letting each individual woman do what feels right to her without fear of criticism, and encouraging any choice she makes about having/not having children.

I am not sure though what "feminism" Ruth refers to in her argument. I cannot say much about contemporary feminism as fword is the only blog I read, so I have no opinion here. But as to traditional feminism, I am sure it was pretty much about mother's rights as well.

Yes, maybe those feminists of the past didn't campaign for stay-at-home motherhood but they'd be fools to, given that this was the only option for women in those days and it was bloody rammed down every woman's throat. It is NOT to have children, or have both kids AND career that made sense to campaign then.

Now it is a bit different, i agree, but not dramatically different as it still seems that every dick, bob and harry are quick to castigate women for whatever they choose or not choose to do, and how.

As a childfree woman i always distansed myself from openly aggressive childfree crowd, and never used the world "breeder" towards mothers. It is to disrespect one's own mother first of all!

I however see nothing wrong with saying "I don't like children" about which there was a debate in fword blog recently. I think there is a misunderstanding, that people who say they don't like children are only saying that they neither have an open dislike of them not have particular strong liking you see in some cooing and awhhing adults. That it, these people are more or less indifferent to children but would never do any harm to them.

I was once in such a situation: a colleague at work brought her daughter of my age and her 2 small girls to our staff canteen for lunch, and another colleague leaned over and asked me, out of blue "Do you like children?" I was taken aback by such tactlessness because she clearly asked only to get a positive answer (well, of course who'd dare say anything different when in presence of a young mother and her children!!) THis rhetoric question pissed me off so much so i decided not to say the expected but truth and said: "No. I don't. I don't dislike them but i don't particularly love them. I guess I am indifferent".

Contrary to what one might imagine, nothing horrible happened, nobody called me a selfish bitch who'd die alone and be eaten by my cats. But I hope that colleague learned her lesson not to ask inappropriate questions in wrong situations as she might not be able to handle the unexpected and unbargained for response.

Lots of people rightly pointed out in the debate on a blog that childfree might get a bit too defensive and upfront because they do get their share of shit from everybody else in regard to their choice. Mothers don't get the same stick for fulfiling the womanly duty they are expected to.

I agree that we should watch our language in regard of "popping the sprog" or "getting up the duff" - pregnancy and child birth are no joke. When i think about pain, potential health risks involved in it I suddenly seem not to be so comfortable about using such light dismissive terms for it.

On this note, I would like to take an issue with you for, in turn, taking an issue with Nino for using "child birth as self-harm" notion. I though this was a greta thing to say , and very right too. Some how you cannot imagine that giving birth can be self-harm? Well, just because for you it was wonderful experience and that you did id willfully, doesn't mean it is like this for every other woman.

I can think of many examples where giving birth is an act of self-harm! Think about a woman faced with unplanned unwanted pregnancy and who gives in to pressure from others, carries pregnancy to term and gives birth buying into an idea that only now she as a woman is worth of anything. Imagine the opposition to an idea of abortion some women have, how they actually GET convinced by others that yes, you mUST sacrifice yourself for the baby, or that an embryo as a potential baby is more important than you dreams about education, good job, maybe different boyfriend than the one you got pregnant by. How the whole idea of an unwilling mother's self-worth is eroded in favour of the idea of womanly sacrifice, Yep, that's it, fun is over.

Don't even get me started on cases where a woman falls pregnant by a violent partner and her sense of self-preservation is so nonexistent that she even doesn't consider that there are other options than to give birth.

In my view any pregnancy that is against a woman's will is self-harm.

If you are brow-beaten into giving birth and becoming a mother, not being able to tell all these sanctimonious arseholes where to shove it (and mind you, many people still love an idea of motherhood as PUNISHMENT - for not using contraception, for not fearing enough, for "having too much fun", for being too young/too old to have sex, for being too equal to men and therefore in need to be reminded that you are different and lowly in fact) - if you buy all this bullshit and start internalize it then yes, giving birth in such circumstances constitutes self-harm.

From Amanda Harding

In response to Jen Clayton's article I feel that what she has to say is very important, with respect to both the issues she raised regarding mental health and women's domestic arrangements. Well said and if more people spoke out then inevitably female solidarity would become the norm instead of alienation. Well said Jen!!!!!! Respect where it is due.

From barbara

I do understand where this girl is coming from. She is well under way to deconstucting her feminine rituals and understanding choice and power from precription and pressure. I was a tomboy until I went lezbo. When that happened I suddenly felt free enogh of re-examine all the feminine rituals, make up, hair products, outrageous feminineity, wigs, long nails, super stilettos etc... I had avoided except for very rare indulgent special occations like a gala or a ball. because I suddenly realised now that I was lesbian, I didn't have the acusation that what I was doing was "selling out" "buying in" for the male gaze. I could really back up with my fresh dyke-card that I really was doing it for myself, thank you very much. But I still got pressured and quizzed and accused - and every single girly ritual I did had to go through the same deconstruction of why I was doing it. My femininity is deconstructed and queered. I love it. I love shaving, especially taking the whole furr off the muff - not because it makes me look like a child, but becaue I love the feeling of having bare skin being touched. having hair desensitises my skin. I love my make up - my artful colour palet that is my playground and operatic canavass for warrior goddess masks to be exposed on. My stilettos are my unshealthed swords and have kicked a bloke or two in them. My corset and push up bra is my battle armour.

I love looking for the perfect shade of lipstick as I know it won't ever be found. it's a soothing, stress relieving way of shopping for a colour of paint in a hectic day - stopping in at the chemists can relieve my whirlwind london AUGH for a cool and cheap £2.99 and a relaxing 10 mins of looking through paint colours.

And far from what people think, being a femme feminist you are always in gender battle mode - for your friends and partners rights and for assumptions being made on your own gender. People don't understand that assumptions about my femininity are sexist - even if it comes from other feminists. When they challenge me on it, I challenge hem back about their pections about being pink and girly beink weak and stupid and insipid. if that isn't sexist, then I don't know what is.

From Ceri

In response to 'Why my son wears pink' I just wanted to say to Penny F from one pagan feminist to another, that I did the same with my son, and he's 9 now and I really believe it made a difference. Indeed despite what all the 'raising boys' books tell you to expect, though he won't wear pink or tops with flowers on any more, his hair is still long, and he still holds my hand and kisses me in public, and cuddles his bunny in bed.

From Joanna

I thought Kelly Draper's article 'What not to say in front of your co-worker' was excellent. Karen, I honestly don't know how you restrained yourself from punching your colleagues for having the GALL to tell you they were thinking of putting you forward for that programme. How DARE they!! I am so mad just thinking about it. I think I'd cry if someone said that to me. My God, what a sad sad age we live in. Only one flaw: I will defend Heat magazine as actually they have always been very good as far as body image is concerned: the then-editor stated that images of women are never airbrushed or digitally altered in his magazine, and they regularly run body-positivearticles on what men think of women and the results are always very uplifiting. I see Heat as female friendly in that respect. The others however, no.

From Elise Nubberstein

...not to mention charlotte helped big & carrie get back together on the television show, did we really need to see it once again in the movie? why couldn't big have died of a heart attack right before or after the wedding? jerked around for 10 years & then poof, life is over, message being; treat those you love with care. ...and hello, on the tv show-miranda never loved steve, gets knocked up by steve, he grows on her after time, she decides she'll settle for him, things aren't great (shocking really) he cheats & she's out of there, end of story. she should not have taken him back. steve jumping off the brooklyn bridge would have made for great viewing! but seriously, miranda never really loved him, think about the show. they were just two people who made a baby & tried to make the best of it. oh and just one last thing, the gay italian wedding planner guy & stamford are suddenly are in love? WTF? WHY??? they both happen to be gay men? oh that's right because it makes for a tidy little ending. BOGUS! totally bogus. disappointed. I was expecting more from this movie.

From Katerina

BRILLIANT artical!! I'm not a feminist but I do feel that Michael Jackson is being unfaily treated just because he's a man. A woman in his situation would not be subjected to the same scrutiny and biased view.

From Ellie Stewart

I have just read Amy Clare's article 'The Perfect Vagina' on which she comments on the recent documentary exploring the increase of women under going labioplasty in this country.

The article is incredibly insightful and intelligent, and yet points out obvious truths that so many people either ignore or deny. The fear and hatred of the vagina and female sexuality is rife in our society. I think it has existed for a long time, but porn has done so much to make this hatred normal. The influence of porn has spread beyond top shelf magazines and lap dance clubs to every teenagers computer, music videos and advertising. With men being brainwashed by these images of women, real women feel under enormous pressure to look like the image of women porn promotes. The other day I commented to my boyfriend on how Pamela Anderson's vulva (which most people will have seen in her and Tommy Lee's home-made movie) not only has no hair on it at all, it also appears to have no visible labia at all. It is literally just a slit. My boyfriend was confused: 'aren't some women's vagina's just like that?'

Amy's point that: 'we live in a society where images of male sexual fantasies and desires are ubiquitous but where women's own sexuality is still seen as something to be feared, hated and sanitised' is a view I have staunchly held for a long time, and yet, when voiced, has been met with derision and accusations of my being 'uptight'.

Thank you for writing such a brilliant article Amy. If only Nuts would print it!

From Anjum Mouj

I am so pleased to read this article and really impressed that it has been wriiten so well and articulates much better than I could (and I'm much older) the frustrations of these gendered streotypes in young girls magazines. Thanks so much Annaya I will post this like to all my nieces and nephews!

From Natalie Dunn

Hi all, I just wanted to thank you for making me feel proud of who I am and what I stand for. Due to this you have encouraged me to begin a British feminism group on facebook and just wanted to inform you that I have posted a link to your website so that other young females can feel the same as me. Many thanks