http://www.thefword.org.uk/images/logo2003.gif 2012-05-15T17:13:58Z Latest comments made on The F-Word Blog tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012://3 Movable Type Copyright (c) 2012, The F-Word 2012-05-16T14:52:05Z 2012-05-16T14:52:05Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152776 lil1 2012-05-16T09:34:45Z 2012-05-16T09:34:45Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152774 IronFly said: I've just written a practical guide to social activism. There are reviews with Sarah Maple and the Guerrilla Girls in here too: http://bit.ly/HvJ61S ]]> IronFly 2012-05-16T09:33:19Z 2012-05-16T09:33:19Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152773 IronFly said: Funnily enough tomorrow I will be working with a female film director who is directing a community-feature film project here in the Midlands. Maybe I'll ask her...]]> IronFly 2012-05-15T16:28:38Z 2012-05-15T16:28:38Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152771 Susan said: Link-dropping a non-victim-blaming anti-rape poster campaign by Men Can Stop Rape, seen here: http://misspixnmix.tumblr.com/post/23072990878/cognitivedissonance-leonineantiheroine]]> Susan 2012-05-15T12:05:21Z 2012-05-15T12:05:21Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152770 Laura Woodhouse said: "If you can't claim the word then you don't respect yourself." This reeks of not respecting other women and the way they choose to identify themselves, which certainly isn't what my feminism is about! You don't need to call yourself a feminist to have self-respect.]]> Laura Woodhouse 2012-05-15T09:24:06Z 2012-05-15T09:24:06Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152769 Feminist Avatar said: You can also marry in England at 16, but you need parental consent until you're 18. I think 16 is a perfectly acceptable age of consent for marriage; in Scotland in particular, you are for most legal purposes an adult at 16 and can sign legal contracts at 14, so it would seem odd to be able to leave home, leave school, pay taxes, sign any other contract that your heart desires, but not be allowed to sign a marriage contract. And, I don't think age plays that huge a role in forced marriage after rape. This was common in the UK historically, where many judges (not just parents) forced women to marry their rapists. And, yes, many of those women were teenagers, as many of those rapes were about forcing women to marry and so giving the rapist's access to female property (so you would try to get access to women as soon as they were legally able to marry - age 12 for girls until 1929). But many were also adult women raped by boyfriends or strangers and were forced to marry to cover their 'shame'. To stop this sort of behaviour requires a change in attitude that deprioritises virginity, otherwise marriage becomes the 'obvious' solution to rape.]]> Feminist Avatar 2012-05-15T08:28:11Z 2012-05-15T08:28:11Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152768 IronFly said: Wow. Feminism is seeming more and more like a religion: you're either with us or against us sort of thing. You don't need a label to fight sexism. "I don't know why some of the above posters even read this blog - what are you? "people for a nice world for people" activists?" Yes. I pick battles based on my own beliefs and you can choose to support them or not. Simple. "If somebody doesn't respect you being a feminist then they don't respect women - If you can't claim the word then you don't respect yourself." You're missing the point, or at least, my point. It's not about respecting "feminism" as some great big unified movement. As this post has proven there is no unified set of aims that unifies feminism. Even the concept of what equality might look like differs from person to person. Perhaps where we disagree is that I feel this is detrimental to my goals: a fragmented movement doesn't feel like a movement at all to me. So whilst yes there are people who get funny around the f word for pathetic reasons, there are a sizable proportion of people who have legit reasons for not wishing to associate with it: I don't like labelling. I don't like the academic nature of the movement. I dislike how fragmented it is. I'm non-white and working class and I'm not sure if that's another reason but yeah, it does sometimes feel as if I'm not welcome. I don't like how a lot of feminism feels as if it's a point scoring game. I don't like how you automatically assume I have no self-respect because I chose not to label myself (even though I am staunchly pro-equality) - that's a massive leap to make. I'm a very practical person. I used to be an engineer - it's drilled into me to think of barriers and find solutions to them. I don't mind what people think of me, but what I do mind is my own self-identification getting in the way of my goals. And so if being associated with a movement that's so fragmented me and my friends can't make sense of it, then I go on, unlabelled. Any animosity surrounding this decision only confirms my original feelings that it's a point scoring game: I'm not suggesting the entire movement needs re-branding, I am only explaining why I chose not to label myself anymore. It's a personal decision and not an attack on anyone.]]> IronFly 2012-05-14T20:38:59Z 2012-05-14T20:38:59Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152766 lil1 2012-05-14T18:28:40Z 2012-05-14T18:28:40Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152765 anywavewilldo said: I don't know why some of the above posters even read this blog - what are you? "people for a nice world for people" activists? This is a feminist* blog - why do we put up with these dull spoilt debates about whether we'd get an easier ride if we used a nicer word? Why do we put up with sighing missives on the difficulty of our diversity - who said feminism was simplistic? If somebody doesn't respect you being a feminist then they don't respect women - If you can't claim the word then you don't respect yourself. NB* of course worldwide feminism is not the only women's liberation movement and non-western(heritage) women often name their movements differently: these remarks are not addressed to other women in struggle.]]> anywavewilldo 2012-05-14T17:27:49Z 2012-05-14T17:27:49Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152764 lil1 2012-05-14T16:57:19Z 2012-05-14T16:57:19Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152763 lil1 2012-05-14T16:37:19Z 2012-05-14T16:37:19Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152762 lil1 2012-05-14T15:52:08Z 2012-05-14T15:52:08Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152761 shatterboxx said: @Gillian a) This post and the post about Lush were written by two different bloggers. b) This post does not claim the billboard is a good idea - it puts the question out for others to decide. c) A lot of the comments on this post are not overly positive - they are discussing the potentially negative impact of the billboard. d) "But you're saying it might be effective because people can empathise with the woman? That you can do something to stop the abuser by 'dragging him away'?" - Who are you talking to? The OP did not actually say either of these things, she put the question out to others.]]> shatterboxx 2012-05-14T13:46:22Z 2012-05-14T13:46:22Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152760 IronFly said: Vicky - I think you misunderstand. I mean that a lot of my friends (and myself included) have experienced a lot of sexism, stupidity and misandry under the guise of feminism. Obviously there are plenty of "good" feminists who aren't these things (by good I mean open minded, level-headed, intelligent, willing to listen to opposing viewpoints), but our experiences are defined by many, many more negative experiences than good ones. "The existence of feminists who happen to be obnoxious is not a legitimate reason to disparage the principles of the feminist movement." I'm definitely not trying to disparage the entire movement by deciding not to call myself a feminist, if that was what was meant. I think perhaps you missed my disclaimer in my earlier post: being pro-women's rights doesn't need a label. I am still an activist that believes in equal rights. Does it matter what I call myself? In my world, no it doesn't. ]]> IronFly 2012-05-14T13:37:34Z 2012-05-14T13:37:34Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152759 sian norris said: What anywavewilldo said. Feminism to me is a liberation movement, to liberate us from patriarchy. Equality yes, but equality in patriarchy will never be a real equality, equality in a capitalist patriarchy even less so. We need liberation. Also, in terms of 'rebranding' feminism or being uncomfortable with the label. I try to look it this way - feminism in the UK has achieved: the vote some reproductive rights legal equality in the workplace (if not actually) the right for women to an education the right for women to be people in their own right - not property of father or husband the right for women to a divorce and custody of her children the right for women to sign their name a (sort of) recognition that rape and domestic abuse are a crime and need to be tackled the right to so many more things i can't listen to them. It wasn't so long ago that UK women weren't legal entities in their own right - married women couldn't have the gas bill in their own name, they had to have signed permission from hubby to have a caesarean. There's nothing bad or shaming or negative about a label that has achieved so much in a relatively short space of time for women. Feminism is definitely something to be proud of!]]> sian norris 2012-05-14T11:47:30Z 2012-05-14T11:47:30Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152758 Vicky said: IronFly, I think there is something disturbing going on when people are only able to listen to feminist principles if they are presented to them by 'good' feminists. If I have negative experiences with black campaigners for racial justice, should other black campaigners start discussing how they can re-brand themselves in order to get past my preconceptions and make themselves more acceptable to me? One of the fundamental messages of feminism is that women's rights shouldn't be contingent on women's behaviour. The existence of feminists who happen to be obnoxious is not a legitimate reason to disparage the principles of the feminist movement - it just quietly reinforces the notion that women's rights are somehow bound up with their ability to behave nicely and to please other people. Nobody should have to be classed as 'good' before their basic rights are respected.]]> Vicky 2012-05-14T10:55:19Z 2012-05-14T10:55:19Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152757 Lesley said: I am from a very poor working class background, although I am now probably what would be called lower middle class. I agree that sometimes arguments and theories are written in such a way that they are difficult to understand unless you are an academic. I don't think feminism should be dumbed down in terms of ideas, but it is wrong to make it unnecessarily difficult to understand. And I actually do think feminism does discuss a lot of the issues that affect working class women such as childcare, reduction in welfare benefits, maintenance issues, etc. Perhaps there could be more of this though? I do object though to the way in which articles like this often portray all working class women as not able to understand more difficult language or theories or more abstract arguments. I think this is totally untrue and does set up a them and us dichotomy. There are plenty of radical feminist bloggers for example who say on their blogs that they are working class or poverty class and often barely scraping enough money together to pay the basic bills. In discussions of feminism I would like to see more women talking about their experiences and hwo patriarchy affects them - a kind of online consciousness raising thing. This is a more accessible way to begin to understand feminist ideas for anyone for whom these ideas are new.]]> Lesley 2012-05-14T10:36:43Z 2012-05-14T10:36:43Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152756 douglas gray said: I was shocked at these comments on QT and was put out enough that I started to doubt I had really heard them, these children were victims of violence and coercion, not of their own actions.]]> douglas gray 2012-05-14T09:41:54Z 2012-05-14T09:41:54Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152755 IronFly said: I can't speak for anyone else's experiences, but bad reactions to the f word in my experience are absolutely nothing to do with resistance to equality. It's down to having mostly negative experiences with feminists and not meeting/seeing/reading enough "good" ones. ]]> IronFly 2012-05-14T09:16:21Z 2012-05-14T09:16:21Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152754 Vicky said: It's true that the word 'feminism' can provoke bad reactions, but those reactions don't stem from the word - they stem from the idea of justice and liberation for women. If we were using some other word, one that didn't contain an etymological reference to women, that word would provoke the same bad reactions. People aren't objecting to the word, they're objecting to the concept. For some reason the idea of full equality for women is still very difficult to stomach. I hate it when women feel obliged to say, "I'm not feminist, but..." in order to get their views taken seriously, and to me dropping the label would feel too much like doing that. I don't want to stop calling myself feminist because it might provoke outrage/sniggers/condescension from people for whom women's rights are not at a premium, and maybe they'll listen to me if I use words that make them more comfortable. There are some people who find it impossible to identify as feminists because historically the movement has been overwhelmingly white and middle-class, and people who have been marginalised within the feminist community don't want to name themselves as part of it. They are fighting oppression, so why would they identify themselves as part of a movement that has participated in that oppression? I have sympathy with this view, and I think it should be left up to the individual how they want to define themselves. But I believe that the community can be cleaned up and made truly inclusive, so while I'm aware of the word's genuinely problematic undertones, I won't scrap it based on that.]]> Vicky 2012-05-14T08:46:39Z 2012-05-14T08:46:39Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152753 Feminist Avatar said: One of the important things that both Salford WC Library and the Women's Library are exhibitions and talks around their collection that explicitly on feminism and on women's history (as well as aiding the research behind those exhibitions and talks). Their events are often well-attended and so they are a major way that the general public learn about women's history. And this is a feminist issue, because women's oppression is often based on a mythical past that we, women, are supposedly escaping and so disrupting the 'natural' order of things. So, it disrupts myths like the idea that women's work is new, or that there were no single mothers in the past etc etc. For me, attacks on libraries that are specifically aimed at furthering the history of women and the lower-classes are effectively attacks on the rights of those social groups to have a history and thus to be part of society. Without a history, your voice is lost and so goes unheard. This is a deeply political issue and one that was at the heart of the second and even first wave movements; it would be sad to see such gains lost.]]> Feminist Avatar 2012-05-14T08:05:47Z 2012-05-14T08:05:47Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152752 Laura Woodhouse said: This is just awful - thank you for highlighting it.]]> Laura Woodhouse 2012-05-14T05:41:17Z 2012-05-14T05:41:17Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152751 Feminist Avatar said: Is Scotland's law of marriage, which allows people to marry at 16, also out of date?]]> Feminist Avatar 2012-05-13T15:04:25Z 2012-05-13T15:04:25Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152749 IronFly said: Regarding the label being useful for forming online communities - absolutely. Thinking about that, I'm reminded of one of my hobbies that until the last few years didn't even have a name. After a label eventually caught on, loads of online communities sprung up, and along came all the associated problems with communities - competitiveness, the "I'm a better X/Y/Z than you are" debates, the extremists, the arguments over definitions, the outsiders and the rebels etc. It happens to all social groups, and feminism has its fair share of those sorts of issues. But, and just like I did with my hobby above (which is called urbex), I gave up the label and a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. The in-fighting and competitiveness far outweighed the sense of community and camaraderie I felt from labeling myself. However, that hasn't stopped me indulging in the hobby. Very similar to how I feel about gender activism and the feminist label. But yeah, the usefulness of sites like these are pretty high and I don't want to undermine that. I just wish we could form communities without the need to rely so much on labels.]]> IronFly 2012-05-13T14:02:04Z 2012-05-13T14:02:04Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152748 Cazz Blase 2012-05-13T13:25:29Z 2012-05-13T13:25:29Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152747 lipsticksocialist 2012-05-13T12:51:32Z 2012-05-13T12:51:32Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152745 Cazz Blase 2012-05-13T10:54:42Z 2012-05-13T10:54:42Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152744 Annuette said: I'm torn in a way but I'd say I too agree with lil1. Feminism can't be boxed up or given definite terms because there are so many contrasting views, ideas and opinions. Some people are reclaiming various words, others are horrified and even triggered by some reclaimed words. Some are living one lifestyle or ideal, others are struggling against or refusing it. It's not a one-box fits all and certainly becomes even less so when feminists argue amongst themselves regarding issues, some in fact going as far to dismiss some as feminists because views don't mesh. I'm loathed to be labelled, I hate labels. I remember watching friends struggle with other labels-fretting that they had to find one that fit and while good on anyone that likes the defininedness of labls-i am not a fan. I find often if you don't quite fit or someone doesn't think you fit, this way wank comes. I also find myself disputing some people are feminists when they don't fit 'the box' in my view-one MP in particular springs to mind who is blatantly anti-choice- so it's easier, for me, to not use labels and just accept their choice of label while i may challenge their views ]]> Annuette 2012-05-13T10:27:01Z 2012-05-13T10:27:01Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152743 S 2012-05-13T07:49:05Z 2012-05-13T07:49:05Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152742 Michael Herbert said: The Working Class Movement Library has a wide range of women's journals and magazines - including the Common Cause, Votes for Women, the Women Worker (later Women Folk) and Labour Woman from the early years of the C20th, whilst from the 1960s-1990s we have Spare Rib, Women's Voice, Red Rag, Shrew, Socialist Woman, Manchester Women's Liberation Newsletter, Rock against Sexism, Everywoman, 0161, Shocking Pink and others.We also have many books and pamphlets. We have some gaps in our collection and would welcome donations of items to fill these if anyone has magazines etc sitting in their loft or cellar. We naturally welcome readers and/or researchers. ]]> Michael Herbert 2012-05-13T07:33:48Z 2012-05-13T07:33:48Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152741 Laura Woodhouse said: This site and all the feminist groups that have sprung up in the last decade wouldn't exist if we didn't have a word which we could use to identify each other and rally around. For me it's just practical, and I find if you don't get defensive about it, people's preconceptions melt away.]]> Laura Woodhouse 2012-05-12T22:36:29Z 2012-05-12T22:36:29Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152740 Cazz Blase 2012-05-12T20:00:51Z 2012-05-12T20:00:51Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152739 Josephine Tsui said: I enjoy calling myself a feminist because it attracts the type of people I want to have conversations with. Just like if I label myself a runner, I have conversations with other runners and it takes it in the direction, and depth that I'm interested in exploring. It's the same thing with feminism. I find the world very lonely if I wasn't able to have conversations like this. ]]> Josephine Tsui 2012-05-12T19:05:35Z 2012-05-12T19:05:35Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152738 HeatherStill 2012-05-12T16:17:31Z 2012-05-12T16:17:31Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152737 Gillian Love said: I find it hypocritical that most comments and the blog post on Lush's animal testing stunt were in condemnation, whereas this stunt which literally invovles watching a man abuse a woman hasn't received the same treatment. Yes, this is triggering. It is a scene too many people have actually experienced in their lives. But you're saying it might be effective because people can empathise with the woman? That you can do something to stop the abuser by 'dragging him away'? Lush had a woman act as an animal undergoing experiments so we could empathise, and do something to stop the abuse by signing the petition. ]]> Gillian Love 2012-05-12T14:55:17Z 2012-05-12T14:55:17Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152736 IronFly said: I agree with lil. I've never found it useful to use the f word. It not only gets people's defenses up when you try to have probing discussions, but the very fact that defining the word is difficult makes it a problematic label: people just attach whatever they want to it based on their experiences. I do understand the uses of naming things (I can see how identifying as a feminist builds strength and solidarity for some, thats great) but in my experience socialising with and challenging the people in my life, none of whom identify as feminist even though they're pro-women's rights, it's more problem than it's worth. The author of this post said she had an ideological crisis over the way the definition was questioned. Does this not hint that, because it's so hard for well-read activists to get their heads around, it must be a nightmare for others? This isn't a popular viewpoint in certain circles so I feel the need to pre-emptively defend myself: by not labelling myself I am not disrespecting the people who've fought sexism under that label, and I'm not suggesting that sexism doesn't exist in obvious and not-so-obvious forms. Also I'm not against others using the label. I just found that the inability to pin down a definition very troubling and my solution was to carry on, without a label. :-) ]]> IronFly 2012-05-12T14:55:06Z 2012-05-12T14:55:06Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152735 CC 2012-05-12T12:46:09Z 2012-05-12T12:46:09Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152734 anywavewilldo said: Most liberation movements are based on struggle to achieve freedom for groups that may not exist in the same way if liberation comes. What 's the big deal? Working class people would not be an oppressed group without capitalism or feudalism. However women do exist - and liberation has not yet been achieved. Radical feminists like myself argue that after patriarchy to be female will be entirely different to now; but that now is now. We need to work together as women for our liberation. Feminism is one of the world's women's liberation movements. It is not just about 'people' it is about women specifically. I have a currently male child. I'd be happy to have him liberated from patriarchy too, but his entanglement has very different concequences for his social position than if he were a girl. Women are meant to be scared of feminism, Womanism and other women's movements ... So fight the power and claim it. ]]> anywavewilldo 2012-05-12T11:31:15Z 2012-05-12T11:31:15Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152733 kirstente said: The BBC complaints page is here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/. Might be worth contacting the individual panelists as well? ]]> kirstente 2012-05-12T11:17:16Z 2012-05-12T11:17:16Z tag:www.thefword.org.uk,2012:/blog//2.152732 CILNewman