Study of trans people’s earnings confirms workplace discrimination against women.

// 29 September 2008

A US study based on data collected from 64 transgendered workers found that* trans women’s pay fell by around a third following their transition, while trans men saw their pay increase slightly. Trans women were also more likely to experience discrimination in other areas of the workplace, while some trans men felt more accepted in their new perceived gender:

“My transition went extremely smoothly,” one female-to-male, blue-collar worker told the researchers. “I was shocked at how smooth. No one even talks about it and it had no effect on my pay. If anything, I have been better accepted at work because people don’t see me as a [slur for a lesbian] like before.”

Trans man Dr Ben Barres’ experience neatly illustrates this phenomenon:

Ben Barres, a female-to-male transgender neuroscientist at Stanford, found that his work was more highly valued after his gender transition. “Ben Barres gave a great seminar today,” a colleague of his reportedly said, “but then his work is much better than his sister’s.”

Dr. Barres, of course, doesn’t have a sister in academia.

So sexism’s alive and kicking in the workplace: no surprise there. But the study, while only small, does make it quite clear that the pay gap cannot be simply explained away by women’s “choices” to be a mother or to work in certain sectors – choices that, as we well know, only result in lower pay due to the continuation of the traditional male-centric employment and value systems. Women are still suffering outright discrimination, and men – even trans men, some of whom doubtless face transphobic discrimination in the workplace – still enjoy preferential treatment.

*Apologies for the crappy article title, *cringe*.

H/t to Feminist Law Professors.

Comments From You

Tony Moll // Posted 29 September 2008 at 4:16 pm

The study showed that average earnings for male-to-female transgender workers fall by nearly 1/3.

This is way more than the ‘gender pay’ gap and suggest that something else is going on.

I feel that male-to-female trans people face much more discrimination that cis women or other transpeople.

Lumping their plight to that of cis-women does them injustice.

Laura // Posted 29 September 2008 at 4:35 pm

Tony,

Of course trans women face extra discrimination. But the gender pay gap in the US is nearly 1/3 (69%) when measured ten years after those concerned finish college, so I don’t think it’s unfair to use trans women as an example of the sexist discrimination faced by all women in this case. I also think the fact that trans men saw their pay increase does show that – while trans women do suffer double discrimination (and more if they are part of other discriminated groups) – this is also a case of straight forward sexism.

I do agree, though, that the chosen angle on this study does perhaps reflect cis interests more than trans (I can’t access the original study for more details, only the article and abstract, as linked to at Feminist Law Professors).

James Lineker // Posted 29 September 2008 at 7:54 pm

The assumption here is that male-to-female trans people get more discrimination from men than women.

I have an alternative theory. Female-to-male trans people have it ok because they end up looking like normal men or boyish/pretty men.

Male-to-female who look like normal women will face some discrimination and may get it from men and women who know.

Male-to-female who look manish however fare the worst, facing discrimination from everyone.

The study did not take account of apperance and to me cannot make a bold conclusions about the cause of the falll in income.

Dean Coleman // Posted 30 September 2008 at 4:25 am

“Of course trans women face extra discrimination. But the gender pay gap in the US is nearly 1/3 (69%) when measured ten years after those concerned finish college”

This often misused statistic does not take into account differences in occupation, experience, and hours per week worked.

Women on average work shorter hours than men, and have shorter uinterrupted working experience. There should be a pay gap, women should NOT be getting payed the same as men for less work.

Laura // Posted 30 September 2008 at 11:47 am

Dean, As long as women are forced to bear the brunt of childcare and unpaid labour in the home, and while majority of working environments are not supportive of employees with children (and this has been fine for men thus far as they have traditionally either not wanted or not been expected to look after their children), many will be forced to work less and, one could argue, men forced to work more. We shouldn’t have to settle for earning less because of this; rather, we want to change the status quo so women are not penalised for having children (as men never have been) and men take on more unpaid work in the home and childcare.

Nevertheless, at least a quarter of the pay gap is made up of direct sexist discrimination against women and has nothing to do with the above factors, as the original study of transgendered workers makes clear.

Tony Moll // Posted 30 September 2008 at 3:27 pm

Laura,

“Nevertheless, at least a quarter of the pay gap is made up of direct sexist discrimination against women and has nothing to do with the above factors, as the original study of transgendered workers makes clear”

How can you be so sure that trans people suffer the same discrimination as women? And is there any evidence suggesting that women are less prejudiced against trans people than men are. I certainly have seen no evidence of this.

Laura // Posted 30 September 2008 at 3:37 pm

Trans women are women, so they suffer sexist discrimination, as well as transphobic discrimination. And, yes, women can be just as transphobic as men, but I don’t see what that has to do with this post.

Tony Moll // Posted 30 September 2008 at 4:04 pm

Laura,

Trans people face prejudice from men and women, so this is a problem of the overwhelming cis majority not treating trans people fairly.

It is not a male v female issue. Therefore feminists could better focus on trying to combat transphobia within their own ranks. Not only is there transphobia among women generally, there is a vocal transphobic wing of the feminist movement.

I guess that trans people are judged on their looks – which particurly affects male-to-female trans people. If you look like a man in a skirt (which people find less visually appealing) you’ll get prejudice from more people.

Hopefully we will have some trans men and women commenting here to help us understand what they have to put up with.

Laura // Posted 30 September 2008 at 5:59 pm

Tony,

This IS a male v female issue. As I pointed out in the post, the fact that trans men benefited from changing their sex – despite transphobia – shows that men hold a privileged position in society. Transphobia probably does add to trans women’s negative experiences and decreased pay, but that’s not to say that sexism doesn’t play a massive part in it.

“If you look like a man in a skirt (which people find less visually appealing) you’ll get prejudice from more people. Hopefully we will have some trans men and women commenting here to help us understand what they have to put up with.”

Maybe people like you telling them they look like men in skirts?

Unless you have anything new to add, I won’t be publishing any more of your comments.

Alyssa // Posted 1 October 2008 at 4:16 am

Oh goody!

Trans women like myself are used to prove a point about cis women.

Can you say “appropriation?”

Seriously, Laura. You have outdone yourself on that title. And the tone of the post? Bad, very bad. Exploiting trans oppression to highlight non trans womens’ tribulations is a sad thing to do.

Trans women have been used and abused by the cis-feminist movement for so long to prove their pet theories. This makes this bit of shameless appropriation even more problematic.

Get your damn theory off of my body, please!

Ellie // Posted 1 October 2008 at 11:27 am

Just thought I’d say that you can try and access the original journal through a guest reader system they have set up. I don’t know if this will work for everyone, I work at a University library so that might make a difference. The login page is here: http://www.bepress.com/cgi/login.cgi?return_to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bepress.com%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1862%26context%3Dbejeap&situation=subscription&context=bejeap&article=1862

I don’t know if someone wants to check this out before posting it.

Laura // Posted 1 October 2008 at 4:34 pm

Alyssa, I didn’t mean cis women when I wrote women, I mean all women, trans included. My “pet theory” that women suffer discrimination in the workplace is just as true for trans as cis women, yet, as I’ve said, trans women of course suffer extra discrimination.

There are so many people who refuse to accept that women suffer workplace discrimination, that the pay gap is anything but our fault, and I think this study is good evidence that we do – all of us. That’s why I highlighted it.

At the same time, I recognise that I should have thought more about the tone and way I approached the study, which was clearly tainted both by my own cis-centredness and that of the article I linked to. I’m sorry, and I’ll try and do better next time :-/

Steph Jones // Posted 1 October 2008 at 5:30 pm

This study is far too small to really draw any reliable conclusions. I would argue from my own experiences within the trans-space, that transmen invariably fair much worse than their transwomen counterparts – usually because transwomen have usually benefited from male privilege prior to their reassignment.

Steph Jones // Posted 1 October 2008 at 5:34 pm

I would add, too, that regardless of being a transwoman or transman, you’re still likely to expect loss of earnings and fewer employment opportunities.

Qubit // Posted 1 October 2008 at 5:57 pm

Please forgive my ignorance and I know it is wrong to post a request like this but I am unable to see an explanation that doesn’t have some element of sexism. Why is there less financial prejudice against trans men than trans women? Is this the same with social prejudice? It is something I have a hard time understanding. As trans women suffer more discrimination this would suggest to me it comes mainly from women. Are women in general more transphobic than men?

Alyssa // Posted 1 October 2008 at 10:18 pm

Thank you, Laura.

My original objection is unmitigated by your comment. Sorry. No cookie. The tone of this article was really awful. And you just successfully alienated a small crowd of trans women here in the States.

No joke… the three of us turned it into a drinking game! Erasing transmisogyny, exploitation of a minority group by a group that has traditionally marginalized said group, centering mens’ voices over women’s, shall I go on?

Massive fail here.

If you want to really impress me, try this for size:

How about a post dedicated to trans women’s integration in the larger movement? Done properly, and without the cheesey paternalism of “inclusion?”

And yes, sexism is a problem. Duh. But making trans women invisible to prove how bad sexism is without paying due homage to our struggles and without centering our voices is a shitty thing to do.

Feminists need to stop using us as tools for theories that benefit cis women at our expense. Now, already. It aint 1979 no more.

This is bad. Really bad. You need to fix this.

Steph Jones // Posted 2 October 2008 at 8:09 am

Alyssa: I’m really not sure what your argument is here?

Qubit: I’ll give you a clue… most mysogyny against transwomen (and women as an entirety) comes from teh menz.

Laura // Posted 2 October 2008 at 12:23 pm

Alyssa,

I’m not asking for a cookie. Yes, I messed up. But you seem to be expecting me to be 100% au fait with trans issues, to have totally overcome my socialisation into a transphobic culture, my cis privilege and way of viewing things. Which, yes, in an ideal world you should expect. But in the UK especially, trans people and politics are completely off the radar. It’s shit, and I’m slowly trying to educate myself and understand as of a few months ago, but that’s going to take a hell of a lot of time, and I’m going to mess up repeatedly. So your implication that I’m purposefully trying to erase trans women’s voices is, I think, misplaced. I’m just ignorant, and I want to change that.

I’m not sure how I centred men’s voices over women’s, and I thought (wrongly, it appears) that incorporating trans women into “women” was the respectful thing to do, an acknowledgement of trans women’s gender rather than an erasure of their identity.

“And yes, sexism is a problem. Duh.”

Well, no, it’s not “duh” for a hell of a lot of people, and one thing I try to do with my writing here is to provide readers with ways they can highlight sexism for those who insist we have equality. I went about this in the wrong way in this case.

.

James Lineker // Posted 2 October 2008 at 4:03 pm

I have a confession. I discovered how transphobic I was when a transwoman started working in my building. I felt uncomfortable in the lift with her and laughed heartily at the ‘have you seen it today’ jokes.

I have since gotten to know her well as a friend and I feel ashamed at they way I had felt. Indeed I am grateful to have been able to free myself of this prejudice, one I had never really thought about.

My prejudice was absolutely not sexism. Not at all. I do not and have never ever felt that way about any woman whatsover. It was not based on her being a woman, but based on my perception of her looking like a ‘freak, weidro’ etc.

So let’s not bury transphobia (faced most harshly by female-to-male trans women) under a mound of sexism. It does not help them at all.

Alyssa // Posted 2 October 2008 at 5:28 pm

Laura,

Okaaay…take a deep breath.

I am glad that you posted this. I am glad that we got at least some mention. I am glad that you are fighting the good fight against sexism. And yes, I have had nontrans women at work tell me with no hint of irony that “women have achieved equality, so there is no problem.” So, I can empathize with the need to publicize the reality of sexism.

That said, why are no trans women asked and quoted about our experiences? Why do you think having men speak about women’s experience and denying trans women a voice in sexism is not a problem, as evidenced by this gem:

I’m not sure how I centred men’s voices over women’s, and I thought (wrongly, it appears) that incorporating trans women into “women” was the respectful thing to do, an acknowledgement of trans women’s gender rather than an erasure of their identity.

Ask yourself this: Why are there no trans women speaking out? Why do you quote two men and NO WOMEN?

Worse, your comment about the title makes it plain that you knew this was a problem post, but you plowed ahead anyway. That screams intent, or at least willful negligence. So, your claim of ignorance as mitigation will hold no water here.

If you know something is a problem, it is your duty to talk about it! That’s why you are posting this stuff,right? To raise awareness of problems that women of all origins face. If I am wrong, and this is just another place for female assigned folks and not all women, tell me, and I will be on my merry way and not bother you.

This article did not include us, you subsumed us. Buried us. Erased us. Or at least I and my friends who read this felt that way since I am not in the business of speaking for all trans women. And quite frankly, I felt used.The article made it all about “women” and trans men. Even fewer people are willing to consider “women” as including us. Just as “men” was supposed to include women (as in “for all mankind”, “he” equaling “he and she” in law and speech), women is supposed to include trans women. Except that it doesn’t work out, for exactly the same reasons. Without addressing that, you get folks posting here talking about “women” and “male to female transgendered people” as distinct and disjoint classes, effectively thirdgendering us. And you let that slide as A-OK. This reveals that you do not consider trans women as women, and trans men as men, full stop. If you did, your knowledge of sexism would have stopped you from making these mistakes. Understand this…there is no arcane mystery to trans women. Your knowledge of sexism is quite sufficient to write very well about us- provided that you honestly see us as women, which this post would seem to indicate otherwise.

The net effect of this post is to obscure trans women, and center the concerns of trans men and cis women. And… this is a running problem in feminist discourse, and is directly related to the idea that ciswomen and transmen are the “real women” and trans women are just foils to support whatever female assigned people’s concerns are… and that we should have no voice of our own.

Consider for a moment if you had recast the article as “trans women face very real sexism just like nontrans women do complete with stories by real women of trans experience” instead of “trans women prove this handy point that has already been proven 10,000 times elsewhere and oh yeah, we will allow trans men to stand in for trans women because that is just as good.” The first approach establishes sexism as very real, and legitimizes the gendered experience of trans women. The second is describing what happened here.

Anyway, this whole thing is making me headachey and kinda upset. You can get my email, no? if you wish, we can discuss it offblog, and I can have the benefit of more time between responses to think and possibly educate. Drop me a line if you think this might benefit your future writings.

Steph Jones:

The bulk of harassment and shitty behavior for being a woman with a trans history comes from women, not men. From men, I just get vanilla sexism. Nontrans women are often physically and verbally violent, dismissing, threatening, and many many other horrible things that men simply rarely are to me. And yes, this is a direct result of my trans status, and does not occur when it is not know. And yes, that includes the bulk of sexual assaults that have left me physically injured which have been instigated by nontrans women.

But, I concede that the bulk of catastrophic violence is perpetrated by men. Nontrans women are worse than men as far as sheer bulk and pervasiveness of bigotry, but men are worse than nontrans women as far as intensity and severity of physical injuries I sustain when they choose to act out.

Alyssa // Posted 2 October 2008 at 5:40 pm

Step Jones wrote:

This study is far too small to really draw any reliable conclusions. I would argue from my own experiences within the trans-space, that transmen invariably fair much worse than their transwomen counterparts – usually because transwomen have usually benefited from male privilege prior to their reassignment.

What few studies have been done do not support you. Plus, the “male privilege” slapdown is tired and old. Get over it, and stop universalizing our experiences. Transmisogyny and blanket generalizations unsupported by evidence are a feminism that some of us are trying very hard to leave behind.

Many trans women have faced the world visoble only as women since their teen years. This is no longer unusual. Transmen reliably gain more social and finanial benefits from transition in every study and credible anecdotal report to date. They are also far less likely to be raped and murdered than trans women. They get more respect in the press. They even have more of a voice in women’s spaces and feminist discussions, even after transition. This article is just another example of that.

Your comments neither reflect reality, nor demonstrate respect. The male privilege thing borders on trolling.

Victoria Dutchman-Smith // Posted 2 October 2008 at 10:38 pm

I’m disappointed no one in the comments has picked up on the point about Ben Barres, who himself backs up the original suggestion about wider sexism. The entire academic community did not read his earlier work full of prejudice about him being “man in a skirt”. The academic workplace is far more dispersed than that, and goes beyond the realms of this type of immediate harrassment. It will have been reviewed the world over, most often by people with no idea what he looked like, but thinking he was a woman, and that was enough to downgrade it. Surely this matters for all women, not just some?

Steph Jones // Posted 3 October 2008 at 8:01 am

Alyssa: Laura’s blog post is here to create some discussion. From your first post, you have been nothing but aggressive in your tone, and you launch into an attack on Laura. And yet you accuse me of using ‘male privilege’ as trolling? wtf?

Your views Alyssa are not representative of all (trans)women, thanks – myself included. Shouting louder than everyone else does not make your opinions any more valid.

Qubit // Posted 3 October 2008 at 9:05 am

Alyssa, how does this fit in with the prejudice experience by lesbians from some straight women? Is a trans women who prefers women more likely to experience prejudice than a trans women who prefers men?

Jennifer-Ruth // Posted 3 October 2008 at 9:17 am

Alyssa –

This is my first comment because as a cis-woman, I want to listen to what you were saying. But I do feel that I need to defend Steph Jones – she is MTF, and I think it is unfair of you to erase her experiences and call her a troll simply because her experiences don’t square with yours.

Laura // Posted 3 October 2008 at 10:12 am

Alyssa,

As I said, I was unable to access the original report. The article I link to only quotes trans men, so I was unable to quote trans women. I also thought their experiences were interesting because – despite having to face transphobia – they still benefited from male privilege. This doesn’t mean I’m not interested in the experiences of trans women. The original article was male and cis biased, so my post reflected that. I should have thought more deeply about it.

On the title – it’s only due to comments left here that I realised I had messed up.

As for the term “male-to-female”, I specifically chose not to use this in my post, despite it being used in the original article, because I recognise that it does not respect trans women’s gender identity. I don’t think others’ use of it justifies not publishing their comments – again, I feel this is down to ignorance rather than wilful anti-trans sentiment. I will try to call people out on this in future, but I don’t feel I should be help responsible for the words of other commenters – why not address them directly?

Steph Jones // Posted 3 October 2008 at 10:44 am

Alyssa: forget studies (actually, can you cite some of this research you are talking about, because the one quoted above is the first I’ve ever seen), and I stand by what I said above – a sample of 64 people in the US does not represent how it is for transmen or transwomen across the world.

May I ask if you are in the UK or the States? Coz, teh States isn’t the most important place in the universe, remember?

In my experience having acquanted with so many transpeople in this country, through my own reassignment, whilst sadly both transmen and transwomen are getting heavily discriminated against and losing out in the workplace, all those transmen I’ve ever spoken to here seem to be fairing much worse than the transwomen.

Saranga // Posted 3 October 2008 at 6:07 pm

I don’t have a lot to add except that before Alyssa’s comments it didn’t occur to me anything was wrong with the post.

Since reading the discussion, and re-reading it, I *think* I get it now.

I appreciate Alyssa coming on here and explaining the problems in the post and why they are wrong. Thanks.

anon // Posted 4 October 2008 at 11:22 am

‘No… comments which make personal attacks on any blogger… will be posted’

I’m really surprised Alyssa’s comments have been posted. They seem to be attacking Laura herself rather than her argument.

It’s fine and good and healthy to disagree, and to offer a more informed view, but to call her actions ‘shitty’ and ‘a massive fail’ is downright rude and encourages more hostility between the various factions of feminists.

Laura has been very open about how she is confronting her privilege and prejudice about trans* issues and should be encouraged. Levying so much aggression and vitriol at her instead of trying to help her to understand is not going to get anyone anywhere.

Alyson // Posted 8 October 2008 at 3:05 pm

“I would argue from my own experiences within the trans-space, that transmen invariably fair much worse than their transwomen counterparts – usually because transwomen have usually benefited from male privilege prior to their reassignment.”

I would argue quite strongly against that, from my own experiences. I did not enter the workplace until I had transitioned, and I did not finish my education *because* of my transition. I am a trans woman and as far as whatever male privilege I was able to access before transition may have affected me – and privilege conditional on my never revealing my true nature is more complicated than regular old male privilege at any rate – I have faced employment entirely as a woman; as a trans woman to begin with and then, as I began to pass, as an apparent cis woman.

I know a great number of people with similar stories to me. I also know I’m late to the thread… the perils of a hospital stay :)

MariaS // Posted 11 October 2008 at 1:25 am

Alyssa: “Trans women like myself are used to prove a point about cis women. Can you say “appropriation?””

The results of a study of the experiences of trans people, men and women, provides evidence of sexism. Sexism in its many various forms by its nature negatively affects women, including trans women. Including you. This is not appropriation.

You can identify as a women and resist the oppression of women (feminism is part of this resistance by the way) and also identify as trans and resist the oppression of trans people. The two are not mutually exclusive. Similarly, I identify as a woman and also identify as a person of colour. I may be on the receiving end of crap for both, but the dynamics and histories of each kind of oppression are specific to each, as is the analysis and particular understanding of each essential to resisting them.

“Seriously, Laura. You have outdone yourself on that title. And the tone of the post? Bad, very bad. Exploiting trans oppression to highlight non trans womens’ tribulations is a sad thing to do.”

Why be so dismissive of the sexist oppression of women? Again, fighting that does not preclude also fighting trans oppression.

I fail to see what the problem is with the title or the tone. Apart from your spot-on observation that she only quotes men, I don’t think Laura has anything to apologise for (while the tone of your comment is kind of rude and high-handed). The fact that the people in the study have spent different parts of their working lives being classed as different genders/sexes helps illuminate the sex discrimination that affects trans* and cis* people who are women. This is a valid angle for a feminist blog to take; as a feminist blog is concerned with discrimination against women and does not have to apologise for that.

Focusing on discrimination against women per se is not privileging cis* women over trans* women. It’s about drawing attention to the privileging of men over women. One might argue that it’s also kind of meaningless to say that cis* women are privileged over trans* women. This is a point that I’ve seen articulated a lot by other cis feminists which is often misunderstood but I realised that what they mean is that “women” and “woman” always denote an oppressed class/person – because the subordination of women (female humans) as a class and the privileging of men (male humans) as a class are the defining aspects of the gender hierarchy. (The “natural” classification of humans into these categories is of course disrupted and threatened by anyone who does not conform to or obey gender norms; the reaction to this threat is all too often violent).

It’s clearer to say that cis* people (male & female) are privileged over trans* people (male & female). I know this sounds nitpicky, but I think it’s an important distinction.

“Trans women have been used and abused by the cis-feminist movement for so long to prove their pet theories. This makes this bit of shameless appropriation even more problematic.

Get your damn theory off of my body, please!”

I understand that it can feel like feminist theorising is making personal use of your experience and existence as a trans woman, but it’s not meant personally. Feminist theory centres on gender and transgender politics & experience inescapably have implications for feminism, and how gender is understood. Both trans* activism/theory and feminist activism/theory absolutely have to be informed by and develop alongside each other.

Feminist theory and activism often helps women (cis* and trans*) make sense of our very real lived experiences of oppression within a patriarchal society, oppression that manifests in very real ways on, in and around our bodies. Feminist theory questions and examines taken for granted gender norms that subordinate women and privilege men, and suggests tactics of survival and resistance.

Not all women (trans* and cis*) identify as feminist, and not all women who question and resist gender inequality identify as feminist. But personally, without feminism I feel that the struggle to resist the ideas that to be a woman I have to be a certain way, that I should accept being sexually objectified, that there are things I cannot do and places I cannot go as a woman, that I am supposed in both overt and subtle ways to submit to male authority, and so on, would be so much harder. It’s not a “pet theory” and it’s not some detached intellectual exercise.

Alyssa // Posted 14 October 2008 at 9:41 pm

Maria,

cis women are privileged over trans women. This is not something anybody with a reading ability and minimal awareness will even try to counter.

Your claim that it is meaningless suggests a hopelessly cissexist bias.

You seriously need to educate yourself on transwomen’s oppression as an entity in and of itself.

I am so out of here.

Qubit // Posted 15 October 2008 at 11:04 am

Alyssa, I think Maria’s point was that women suffer more oppression than men and transpeople suffer more oppression than cispeople. While it is true that ciswomen have a large amount of privilege compared to transwomen it is also true that cismen are privileged compared to transmen. Therefore you are suffering oppression both because you are a woman and because you are a transwoman not a ciswoman. I don’t know if this is true. However I don’t think she meant to offend you nor deny that you suffered a large amount of discrimination based on being a transperson.

I would be interested to know how connected you feel this discrimination is, ie. do you think the discrimination you would suffer as a transman would be completely different or do you feel there is a distinction between the discrimination you have due to being a woman and that you have due to be a transperson?

Most people on here would argue but it is actually highly debated that cismen have more privileges than ciswomen. There is a large proportion of people though who would say this is the other way round though and ciswomen and privileged over cismen. However this is not really the point of the article.

The article does argue that transmen are privileged over transwomen. I am unaware of any transpeople in my social sphere and therefore have no personal experiences to comment on however I am interested in whether you believe this is the case? Steph do you think there is a reason why transmen seem to suffer more in the UK? Do you think the discrimination transpeople suffer in the UK and the US varies? If so why do you think this is?

Caine // Posted 29 November 2008 at 10:16 am

I have experience a lot less discrimination almost to none since the start of my transitioning. I’m FTM pre-op but I am fully passable as a male.Unless I tell you wouldn’t know, not even if you was holding my ID with my female name, which is very feminine. The first name is over looked immediately and people automatically use my last name which is a males name. I’m only a year into my transitioning but I’m very much into my gender identity culture.

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